that does it for us. thanks very much for watching. erin burnett starts right now. imagine shrapnel hitting your body before you even hear the blast. we're live, let's go out front. good evening. tonight, the developing story. telling investigators that the wars in iraq and afghanistan

were motivation for the attack. what have you learned that dzhokhar has told investigators? >> seemings like we're getting interviews about a bunch of files. a government source telling cnn that in those communicative moments that dzhokhar also mentioned that the wars in iraq and afghanistan were self radicalized. it was the older brother who was more or less the ring leader in all of this. i must caution you, who knows what kind of state this kids mind is in, with the medical condition he is under.

a government source now for the first time telling cnn that this kid laying in a hospital bed is mentioning the wars in iraq and afghanistan for what they did or alengedly did here in boston. >> it seems like he is upgraded. he's in fair condition now, according to the hospital which released that information with the approval of the fbi. now, the other families of the actual victimings of this bombing want him out. >> it would need to happen when he's stable enough to move. there's an mci plymouth, it's a jail, prison, that they also have medical treatment available

for. that's not uncommon. they would poszly take him there as he waits for all the court appearances. the why is the families just want him out. they don't want him in the same hospital as their loved ones who are lying there, basically, because of this guy according to the police. >> you know, you and i were standing live at cnn when there was a shooting at mit. and then there was that carjacking. and it's still so sketchy, the details, but i know you found a little bit more on how it all pieces together. >> yeah, we at least know now that the carjacking took place

when the older brother carjacked that black suv. that was the main car used. there were two cars ininvolved. tamerlan is the one who carjacked the car. his little brother was nearby, we're told by a source in the investigation. so that's how it played out. but, boy, you are right, erin, what a crazy night. and it's taken this long. i think it's really taken this long for the police to figure it all out. well, drew griffin, thanks very mump. we are learning now about where and how the brothers may have gotten some of the explosives that they used in the bombings. this has been another huge question mark out there.

>> reporter: erin, cnn is told tonight that tamerlan, at one point, purchased a very large cachet of firearms. >> william says that this purchase took place on february 6th. he stressed at the time, it was not out of the ordinary. he says tamerlan asked the clerk what is the loudest and biggest thing that you have. he paid about $200 in this purchase. and, again, the purchase was two reloadble mortar kits with about 48 reloadble shells. >> thanks to you, brian. one of tamerlan's closest

friends, a man named brendan mess and two other people were brutally killed. their throats were slit from end to end. deb, what does this case have to do with the boston attacks? erin, investigators are taking a closer look at this murder from 2011. initially, police thought it was drug-related. the reason it is back on the radar is brendan mess was a close friend of tamerlan. the two were described as close. they often showed up at a mixed

martial arts center in boston. the heads of each of the victims was pulled back and their throats were slit from ear to ear. narn was spread all observe the bodies of the victims. a source that we spoke to says that was really a symbolic gesture. there was a lot of cash that was left behind at the apartment. so we're learning that, apparently, the district attorney at the time, really believed that the victims knew who their killers were. the crime itself was so brutal, so grizzly, many of the police couldn't understand want

had triggered it. the reason they're looking at that connection there because he's one of the last people that saw brendan mess alive. three months after that murder, he went to russia. he was never questioned, by all accounts, by any police who was originally investigating that case. >> and, obviously, now, an open case. nick, you know, we do know tamerlan returned from russia and the united states after about six months, he started doing something he hadn't done before, posting to his youtube channel.

what do you know about that video and to give us a sense of whether it could be an important link here? >> well, we know he took down the video sometime before the bombings took place. it's an indication he knew it might be some kind of use to investigators or it might point a finger to what he had been doing here or the connections he had made. it's not the kind of big-name, jihadist leader that a lot of young, want-to-be leaders will post jihadist. it's kind of interesting to post that video of that man. this is a relatively small area. could he have met with him? could he have met with some of his supporters? it's really quite a serious possible, erin.

>> nick, would it have been easy for him to learn how to make these kinds of bombs and devices while he was in dagistan? >> just a couple of days ago, there was a bombing attack on the police, one was killed, three were injured. the week before, another policeman, a bomb placed under his car that he and his family were in. they all survived. the week brve that, another attack on the where several of them were killed. so there's plenty of sort of rebel expertise here in bomb-making. so if he was here looking to get that expertise, you know, bombs

were going off not far from where he was living. it couldn't have been that hard to get himself, given the circles he's believed to be moving in, getting ahold of that kind of training, that kind of information from people here. we've got a lot of experience, erin. >> obviously a crucial link there. nick robertson reporting live from dagistan. still ahead, a hearing on whether clues were missed by the fbi. plus, investigators are talking to tamerlan's wife. and the man who went out to look at his boat right after the lockdown was relaxed. they found a man at the center of a nationwide man hunt. ♪

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this just in, i wanted to share this with you from the boston police department just this moment saying as of 3:00 a.m., boyleston street will reopen. that's where the attacks happened. they're not permitting parking in or near the affected areas. this is part of the process, as boston is trying slowly to recover. life has changed for so many, and for that city, life has changed forever.

the fbi is facing tough questions about whether the fbi missed critical clues. even after russia raised a red flag about his radical islamic clues. homeland security secretary acknowledged that the government was aware of tamerlan's trip last year after the russians warned them. >> was your department aware of his travels to russia and, if you weren't, the reason? >> the travel in 2012 that you're referring to. yes, the system pinged when he left the united states. >> did the agency drop the ball? the question keeps building.

good to see you, sir. as you know, the fbi says it looked into tamerlan before that recent trip to russia at the behest of the russians and found nothing derogatory. but according to some reports, the russians didn't stop then. again, as recent as last year, the wall street george says they didn't get an alert. >> the fbi has told me that they were not warned again. but let's look at the facts here. the fbi has denied they have any knowledge of his trip to russia. they had a lead opened on this individual that they closed. and now we have the secretary of homeland security test find that they knew he left and traveled to russia. when you look at the original russian intelligence wire, it basically indicates that this is

more of a dangerous person who may leave the united states and join underground extremist groups. the idea of when that flag went up, what was done with that information? the homeland was there to make sure we didn't have this happen again. that the dots would be connected, that people would communicate. and the problem is dhs has this information and presumably the man knows about this and the question that can't be answered right now, when asked the director, is did the fbi know about this. and if he didn't know, why didn't he. >> right. >> and after the visit to russia, as we understand at this point, came home and posted a lot of videos, including one from a radical muslim cleric called phase muhammad. did the fbi miss something or not? this is somebody that they do admit at this point 45d been on their radar. they had dismissed him, but then he's posting radical videos.

>> when you mention was a ball dropped, the idea that maybe dhs did not share that information with the fbi, after all we've been through after 9/11 and talking about connecting the dots and just maybe if they did know that, wouldn't they have reopened that lead that they closed? now, i was told that the case was closed. there's nothing derogatory. but it seems to me if you foe he's traveling back to russia, after russia has warned the fbi of his behavior, it seems to me you could have reopened that lead. >> in the past, the fbi has interviewed, investigated other people who have gone onto successfully commit terrorism acts on domestic soil. i mean, this is -- this is a difficult question to ask.

but, you know, they're investigating thousands of people. is it acceptable or basically inevitable? someone is going to fall through the cracks? >> well, in fairness to them, and i know working with the jtds in the past, they have thousands of leads coming in all of the time. but, as you mentioned, in our letter to the secretary, to the director of the fbi and to dni director clapper, we raised the issue that you raised. five individuals, key individuals, that were able to, in most of the cases, carry off a successful attack. my job as chairman of homeland security is to examine what happened, what possibly went wrong and how can i correct that in the future. >> and the final question, sir, you know, the younger brother saying they acted alone. it's unclear at that point what he's saying. the older brothers had met with extremists and there are a lot of other questions right now

about how he became a radical. >> i find the idea that there wasn't any reason to believe. most of the experts i talked to indicate that there had to be some sort of trainer who trained them in this and some training ground that they went to to test these explosives. and whether that happened over in the chechen region or whether that happened in the boston area, we don't know the answer to that. but it is the job of the fbi and homeland security to cast a wide net to make sure if there's anybody else involved with this horrible bombing, that we catch them. >> chairman, good to talk to you again.

appreciate it. i heard the chairman say, he finds it difficult to believe they didn't have foreign influence. think it's really premature for them to come to that conclusion or for anyone to come to that conclusion. the evidence has to be examined closely. yes, there is video tape. yes, there are reports that he's made certain statements. but all of that has to be examined by his attorneys.

and investigated. >> paul, would you go that far? after all, he has essentially admitted to doing it, and i want to say with a very important caveat, before he was read his miranda rights. >> there's no such thing as a slam dunk in criminal law. but this is as close as you get. you've got video tape putting him at the scene. you have a motive in terms of what he's had to say. plus, you have a guy in a car that admissions were made to. it goes on and on. now, could he beat the death penalty? maybe that's a possibility. what should the defense's strategy be. the shoe bomber obviously now serving life, but did not get the death penalty because of your defense. what can the defense possibly do?

>> well, they're going to be focused on mitigation at this point, thinking about the possibility of the death penalty. they're going to be looking into his background. they're going to be having him evaluated, potentially, by, you know, forensic evaluations, by psychologists. they're going to be looking at his state of mind. >> it seems like the defense may try to say he was under the influence of his older brother and be some way to mitigate his defense or say he is brainwashed. is there any way that can hold weight? >> good luck with that defense. that's a hail mary defense. the younger brother, 19 years

old is a student at the university of massachusetts, he was a scholarship student, we've seen in early reports. the older brother on the other hand is a professional or quasi professional boxer whose brains were probably scrambled a bit as a result of the boxing career he had. if anybody influenced anybody else, you could argue the 19-year-old influenced the older brother. >> thanks to you both. david hennenberry is the man who tipped off police to the whereabouts of dzhokhar. at some point, dzhokhar was injured by gunshot wounds. he found refuge in a boat parked in a backyard. that boat belonged to hennenberry. without his call, no one knows what would have happened when dzhokhar would have been found. in an exclusive and emotional

interview with our affiliate wccb, he clears up how he stumbled upon one of the most wanted men in america. blood in the boat, he saw blood and went in. >> reporter: not true? >> not true. no. >> reporter: word is, you saw the boat, pulled back the wrapping, you saw a body and called 911? >> no. >> reporter: so you went to the garage and got a step ladder. >> i went up three steps and i can see through the shrink wrap. i didn't expect to see anything and i look in the boat over here on the floor and i see blood and -- >> a lot of blood? >> a lot of blood. and the engine box is in the middle -- there was a body. >> reporter: and at that moment,

what did you do? what were you thinking at that moment? >> oh, my god. >> reporter: he couldn't see suspect number two's face. he was glad he couldn't see his face. >> well, i know i took three steps up the ladder. i don't remember stepping down off the ladder. this hits you more afterwards when you think, my god, we probably slept last night. this guy could be -- that -- you know, i don't know. it's -- it's surreal. >> reporter: in that instant, police responded and he and his wife were taken away. >> people are calling you national heroes. >> if the people that were killed can get some -- whoo. >> reporter: you know, in many ways, they do. >> then i'm at peace with it, you know. still to come out front tonight, how the brothers become

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new details tonight about what motivated to allegedly carry out the boston marathon terror attacks, in which three died and more than 260 were wounded. according to a government official, dzhokhar tsarnave were the reasons he and his brother decided to set off the deadly bombs. they told investigators that the brothers were self radicalized?

how could these two chechen immigrants become jihadists? >> eyewitness photographs capture the violent street shootout and the last moments of the dangerous tamerlan. a federal law enforcement source tells cnncnn he conveyed to investigators he was not only the master mind, but that he was motivated by a jihadist call for a call with a self-made radical. >> it's estimated that there are over 8,000 web site that is have very extremist radical ideology. >> 8,000? >> over 8,000 web sites. >> donna studies the reach and impact of online jihadist sites. >> how many of these offer explanations or instructions on how to build weapons? >> so some of them do. >> a senior administration

official says investigators are trying to determine if the on looip-inspired magazine could be one of the siets possibly providing the blueprints for the bomb that he used. >> the fact that five of his bomb went off is an extraordinary piece of luck or he knew what he was doing. >> bob behr believes he could have had personal training when he visited his parents in russia early last year. after returning to the u.s., a video was posted and removed. >> he listened to somebody there. he maybe got some sort of training or at least watched people build this stuff. something, there's something we're missing. i just have an uneasy feeling about it. but not having the facts, i can't assure you a hundred percent. >> a u.s. government official

tells cnn they had no contact with any foreign terrorist organization. his answers prove elusive. his parents and even his wife. the reports of involvement by her husband and brother-in-law came as an absolute shock to them all. vrjts now, federal investigators are talking to the lawyers for tamerlan's widow. but we have not been able to ascertain if they had been doing something absolutely crucial. and that is talking with catherine russel dreblgtly. according to her attorneys, she's cooperating and is devastated. but it's still unclear exactly what she might have known. after all, according to our understanding, she was living

with him, even after the bombings, in a very small apartment in cambridge, massachusetts. >> investigators want her help as they piece together the alleged boston bomber's plan. >> the reports of involvement by her husband and brother-in-law came as an absolute shock to them all. as authorities try to determine when and where he may have assembled the bombs, investigators try to figure out what if anything she knows. >> she is doing everything she can to assist in the on going investigation. they say she last saw tamerlan before she went to work thursday. they say she worked as a home health aide while tamerlan stayed home with the couple's

young daughter. >> very out going. very friendly. very smart. and very talented. >> that's the katie russel he remembers. her high school art teacher says she talked a lot about earning her college degree. >> are you surprised how her life has turned out so far? >> i was surprised. and i hadn't seen any indication of a particular address. >> she moved to boston for college, met tamerlan and dropped out. attorneys say she converted to islam. >> thanks very much to chris lawrence who has been doing the legwork on reporting on tamerlan's wife. shlgts well, according to government officials, the brothers became self radicalized jihadists by their own accord. steve hassen has been counseling people for more than three decades as the director of the freedom of mind research center.

thank you so much. everything we've heard seems to indicate that this was a relatively short period of time. it happened very quickly, even rekrently, the younger brother out partying, having fun with his friends. and all of the supden, becomes a jihadist. >> i don't think that the older brother was recruited just from the internet. the latest information confirms my suspicion that, in fact, there was a person who recruited and began indoctrine nating the older brother. but i just want to say when i was recruited into a cult, it took me two weeks.

so, yes, it can happen very fast. >> i mean, that's incredible. you say that, it just brings to mind catherine russel. we've shown pictures of her in high school. a student. graduating college. wanted to join the peace corps. that's her then. she changed dramatically. she converted to islam. she changed her life. had a baby instead of finishing college. >> it's a stereotypical scenario of an undue influence situation if my opinion. and what people don't understand is that intelligent, educated people can be recruited incrementally, often, with different mind control techniques such as behavior

control, information control, phobias can be installed in people's minds very fast. systematically, step by step, nobody says i want to join a destructive cult and blow up people. but people do fall in love with people. family members and friends don't know what to do without the loved one. >> the thing i haven't been able to get my mind around is how the younger brother, 19 years oold, goes to school, goes to the gym, goes to parties and is in his dorm. he's even there thursday when the video comes out as if nothing had happened. how is that possible? he had just killed people.

>> it's very, very understandable, if you understand the paradigm of dissoes yative disorder. if he was instructed by his brother to go back to school and act normally, then he's going to go back to school to act normally. completely stereotypical behavior, in my opinion. >> still, "out front," the destructive force of a pressure cooker bomb and what it means for the recovery of the sur visors of the boston marathon attacks. he looked out of his window and now you'll see the footage. more than a week after the bombings, 43 people are [ alarm clock ringing ] [ female announcer ] if you have rheumatoid arthritis,

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more than a week after the bombings, 43 people are hospitalized. three people lost their lives and there was the mit policeman who lost his lives after the attacks. immense destruction from two homemade and crude devices. they propel thousands of sharp, sering objects through the air. now, we commissioned explosives experts to detonate a similar device and our david matingly showed us what happened.

>> four, three, two, one. >> reporter: how fast were these things moving when they went out of there? >> they can travel a thousand, two thousand feet a second. >> that's faster than sound. >> right. these things will actually get in front of the shock wave and hit you before the pressure wave does. >> you're hit before you even hear it? >> that's right. >> hit before you even hear it. faster than the speed of sound. you see those ripples traveling across the sand? that shows the impact of shock wave. in boston, the packed crowd was right in front of carnage. dr. sanjay gupta joins me now to explain the injuries. when you think about how many people were around whose lives have been devastated forever. three people are dead. do you think this is the maximum damage that was done? or could this have been a lot worse? >> it's a good question. when you think about these types

of devices, we know from talking to doctors, there were carpenter nails, bee bb-like devices. and then it's indiscriminate. it travels very fast. and they've behaving, in some ways, like bullets. it can cause all sorts of different injuries. yeah, it could have been a lot worse. one thing i will say when you fire a gun or a bullet, it's designed to travel a certain speed, a certain direction. this is just sort of like a scatter shock of things. >> david also talked about you hear it after it hits you. are the injuries you get from these pieces of shrapnel which are distorted and twisted, unlike a bullet, is this a worse

injury you would get from a bullet? >> it can be. but the thing about -- just keep in mind, bullets are designed to do all sorts of things in the body like yaw, like tumble and all sorts of things. so you get this primary blast and then you get that secondary blast, sometimes they're right on top of each other because the shrapnel is moving so fast. and they can penetrate all of these different areas of the body. the b-bs or the ball bearings that david was describing and the doctors were describing in boston are perhaps the most concerning. they can literally penetrate through the chest, go through the heart, a very, very small wound, you may not see it, but cause a deadly injury sometime somewhere within the chest cavity.

>> so you don't see all the injuries you may necessarily get? >> no, that's why it's so difficult for doctors. what happens, somebody comes in and they look like they're relatively okay. they have a tear in their blood vessel. there are people walking around who may not know it. >> thanks to you, san yeah. tonight, dramatic views of what happened. up until now, there have been a lot of questions about what to place during this deadly shoot out. it left one of the suspects dead. he went to a neighbor's house whose photographs are helping to fill in what were a lot of blanks until now. >> cars were stopped right in front of that pole.

it's roughly 75, 80 yards. >> reporter: erupted into a war zone. >> as soon as i saw the two shooters and saw that it was gunfire, i ran immediately up the stairs to my bedroom on the third floor. and then i also got my camera right up against the windows and the glass. continuing to take photos of the shooters and what was happening right in front of my bedroom window. >> this was one of the first pictures i took. it was two shooters taking cover behind the black suv. >> so the green sedan is where they had bombs? >> yeah, they were bringing them

out in backpacks. i assume it was additional ammunition and explosions. >> and they were both firing? >> they were both firing, yeah. >> what's going through your mind. did you know that these were the brothers wanted? >> not initially. >> you thought it was separate? >> i just wasn't thinking marathon. when they started using explosives, that's when i knew it was something much more significant and pretty much knew who i was looking at. >> were you worried for your life? >> at that moment, taxing pictures, it was more so than just a state of shock and terrified. but i guess not enough to get away from the windows. one of the brothers ran towards the officers. >> the older brother. >> um-hmm. and he was running down the street still engaging gunfire.

as that happened, the second brother got in the suv and turned it around and started accelerating into the street. >> adrenaline is still running high on this street. after all, anything could have happened. >> at what point did your roommate go through his wall and into his chair? >> i don't know. i didn't hear it come in. i took a picture kind of after the gunfire had stopped. >> a bullet was fired from that direction where the police were. and it went through the second floor here through his calendar through his desk chair and landed on the ground, thankfully, not hitting any person. >> that image is just -- that image says it all. next, returning to boilston street for the first time since the bombings. the kyocera torque lets you hear and be heard

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boyleston street was ground zero for the boston terrorist attack. it's a place where a makeshift memorial has taken place since the attack and it has moved a few blocks away. a memorial that represents what boston is fighting and will still be fighting and its resolve. and a reopening of a place that needed to reopen so a city can recover. our continuing coverage continues next with "piers morgan live." thanks for watching.

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